I'm not going to stop coding; in fact, I've just realized that what the DGD community needs more than anything else are finished products. I know that your message here has advocated against the use of "stock" libs... BUT, from what you've said, and my own observations, it is imperative for us, for both the sake of DGD and MUD'ing in general, to produce the following; 1) We have a great driver already... 2) We need OLC creation tools, to inspire non-coders to become builders... 3) We need tools to link the web browser to the MUD, so that getting into the MUD can be seamless for the novice... 4) We need a stock lib with enough playable content so that the average guy will be inspired to set up a MUD in the first place... 5) We need it now. All of the great MUDs that are out there, after a closer inspection, are MUDs that have been around for a while (with only a few exceptions). They have had the hordes of builders pass through them, to create the massive amount of content that is necessary to grab and keep players. The cycle is a vicious one; and the only way to break it is to create a massive amount of content to draw players in the first place. But, most libs "die on the vine" because they undertake the massive project, only to become dis-interested once the size of the project overwhelms them (I suffered from this as well). I think the original idea for the 2.4.5 lib is a valid model for today; players play until they exhaust the content, and once they do, they are then in charge of creating new content. -David Jackson